From:  SqueakyBrown   9/19/2004 4:10 pm  
To:  ALL    
 
  910.1  
 

ABOUT THE OLD TESTAMENT 
FROM THE NEW TESTAMENT 
Heb 8:13 
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 
2 Cor 3:14-15 
14 But their minds were blinded. For until this day the same veil remains unlifted in the reading of the Old Testament, because the veil is taken away in Christ. 
15 But even to this day, when Moses is read, a veil lies on their heart. 
Gal 2:21 
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." 
John 10:8-9 
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 
1 Cor 10:1-12 
1 Moreover, brethren, I do not want you to be unaware that all our fathers were under the cloud, all passed through the sea, 
2 all were baptized into Moses in the cloud and in the sea, 
3 all ate the same spiritual food, 
4 and all drank the same spiritual drink. For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ. 
5 But with most of them God was not well pleased, for their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. 
6 Now these things became our examples, to the intent that we should not lust after evil things as they also lusted. 
7 And do not become idolaters as were some of them. As it is written, "The people sat down to eat and drink, and rose up to play." 
8 Nor let us commit sexual immorality, as some of them did, and in one day twenty-three thousand fell; 
9 nor let us tempt Christ, as some of them also tempted, and were destroyed by serpents; 
10 nor complain, as some of them also complained, and were destroyed by the destroyer. 
11 Now all these things happened to them as examples, and they were written for our admonition, on whom the ends of the ages have come. 
12 Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. 
Rom 13:8 
8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. 
John 6:63 
63 "It is the Spirit who gives life; the flesh profits nothing. The words that I speak to you are spirit, and they are life. 
John 4:23-24 
23 "But the hour is coming, and now is, when the true worshipers will worship the Father in spirit and truth; for the Father is seeking such to worship Him. 
24 "God is Spirit, and those who worship Him must worship in spirit and truth." 
John 17:17 
17 "Sanctify them by Your truth. Your word is truth. 
John 3:34 
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 
John 3:33 
33 "He who has received His testimony has certified that God is true. 
John 3:35-36 
35 "The Father loves the Son, and has given all things into His hand. 
36 "He who believes in the Son has everlasting life; and he who does not believe the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him." 
Rom 8:1-2 
1 There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the Spirit. 
2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has made me free from the law of sin and death. 
Rom 8:3-8 
3 For what the law could not do in that it was weak through the flesh, God did by sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, on account of sin: He condemned sin in the flesh, 
4 that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 
5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit, the things of the Spirit. 
6 For to be carnally minded is death, but to be spiritually minded is life and peace. 
7 Because the carnal mind is enmity against God; for it is not subject to the law of God, nor indeed can be. 
8 So then, those who are in the flesh cannot please God. 
John 14:26 
26 "But the Helper, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send in My name, He will teach you all things, and bring to your remembrance all things that I said to you. 
Gal 2:19-21 
19 "For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 
20 "I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 
21 "I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain." 
Gal 3:24-25 
24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 
25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor. 
Gal 5:1-5 
1 Stand fast therefore in the liberty by which Christ has made us free, and do not be entangled again with a yoke of bondage. 
2 Indeed I, Paul, say to you that if you become circumcised, Christ will profit you nothing. 
3 And I testify again to every man who becomes circumcised that he is a debtor to keep the whole law. 
4 You have become estranged from Christ, you who attempt to be justified by law; you have fallen from grace. 
5 For we through the Spirit eagerly wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. 
Gal 4:21 
21 Tell me, you who desire to be under the law, do you not hear the law? 
Rom 7:4-6 
4 Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to Him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. 
5 For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. 
6 But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter. 
Rom 13:10 
10 Love does no harm to a neighbor; therefore love is the fulfillment of the law. 
1 Pet 2:19-21 
19 For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 
20 For what credit is it if, when you are beaten for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 
21 For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us, leaving us an example, that you should follow His steps: 
II Jn 1:9-11 
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 
John 1:17 
17 For the law was given through Moses, but grace and truth came through Jesus Christ. 
(NKJ) 
xxx Jesus wants everyone who is going to be a christian to understand that the new covenant(testament) is just that new. That you cant go back and keep any part of the old testament that Jesus hasnt brought over to the new testament. Jesus new what to bring over man doesnt. But the old testament has to be obsolete to you in order for you to get the fullness of the new testament. 11John 1-9 is very specific if you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the real God. There IS a veil over the old testament that remains to THIS day.  
From:  SqueakyBrown   10/14/2004 6:42 am  
To:  RayPerry1   (3 of 22)  
 
  910.3 in reply to 910.2  
 
Well now you see why it is obsolete. 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   10/14/2004 7:06 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (4 of 22)  
 
  910.4 in reply to 910.3  
 
SB, 
The OT is obsolete? The testament that points to our Lord and Savior and describes in detail just how He will be and was treated? 

If you are the man of God you profess to be how can you consider the OT 'obsolete'? 

And if you are trying to 'manipulate' Ray, more power to you, but this isn't the way to do that either.


Born once; Die twice
Born twice; Die once 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)     10/14/2004 12:19 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (5 of 22)  
 
  910.5 in reply to 910.4  
 
Hi Bob and Squeaky,

Great posting on this topic!

I'm looking forward to more of your discussion.

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   10/14/2004 12:27 pm  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (6 of 22)  
 
  910.6 in reply to 910.5  
 
Hi David, 
God bless you, my brother! You come highly recommended by Amy. She is a dear Christian sister and I have a large amount of respect for her opinion. I look forward to some exchanges between us. 

Ybic Bob


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  From:  SqueakyBrown   10/14/2004 4:57 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (7 of 22)  
 
  910.7 in reply to 910.4  
 
you said 
The OT is obsolete? The testament that points to our Lord and Savior and describes in detail just how He will be and was treated? 
If you are the man of God you profess to be how can you consider the OT 'obsolete'? 

And if you are trying to 'manipulate' Ray, more power to you, but this isn't the way to do that either. 

I said 
Your getting carried away there with the exaggerations. Them are not my words nor my dictionary. Look at the Word of God. 

Heb 8:13 
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 
(NKJ) 

1242 diatheke (dee-ath-ay'-kay); 

from 1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will): 

KJV-- covenant, testament. 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)     10/14/2004 5:24 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (8 of 22)  
 
  910.8 in reply to 910.6  
 
Hi Bob,

A nod from Amy that is a compliment indeed.

Welcome, and please make yourself at home.

I look forward to your insights, blessings and knowledge regarding Jesus our lord and savior.

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   10/15/2004 5:58 am  
To:  David (DavidABrown)    (9 of 22)  
 
  910.9 in reply to 910.8  
 
Thank you David, and indeed I will make a post from time to time. BTW, I am host (for whatever it is worth) of NVT on Delphi. I am not saying that to entice posts on the board, but let's face it, the board could use some more input. 
I appear to NOT be very good at attracting folks to come and post, but apparently I am VERY good at "driving" them away. I don't thrive on controversy and unfortunately many folks do. 

Ybic Bob


Born once; Die twice
Born twice; Die once 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   10/15/2004 6:16 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (10 of 22)  
 
  910.10 in reply to 910.7  
 
SB. 
Once again you are taking scripture out of context. Heb 8: 13 is talking of a new "bargain" or "contract" or a new "covenant" which means the same thing. Unless I missed something which if I did, I am sorry, but testament and covenant can be used in the same context, but not necessarily. Modern man doesn't place the same respect and intent behind either word as did the men of old. A bargain sealed by words and a handshake in those days was better than a "signed contract" is today. There was heart behind the old agreement but today even as the "signed contract" is formulated there are "escape clauses" provided within it in order to avoid certain points of the contract if necessary. Ie; there is no heart for an agreement but there is heart for taking advantage or trying to take advantage. 

So while an old "bargain or contract" may become obsolete, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the Old Testament becoming obsolete. 

BTW, the old Abrahamic covenant is STILL in effect to this day. It hasn't been rescinded. Therefore, in part Abraham's seed is still multiplying "as the stars in heaven".


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  From:  SqueakyBrown   10/17/2004 3:41 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (11 of 22)  
 
  910.11 in reply to 910.10  
 
You said 
So while an old "bargain or contract" may become obsolete, this has nothing whatsoever to do with the Old Testament becoming obsolete. 
I said 
Well I guess you do have a right to your opinion even thought it is wrong. The problem with opinions is, that is where deception enters in. But have you looked up the word covenant in a dictionary? This is strongs dictionary. 

1242 diatheke (dee-ath-ay'-kay); 

from 1303; properly, a disposition, i.e. (specially) a contract (especially a devisory will): 

KJV-- covenant, testament. 

If that isnt good enough I can show you verses that back up the same. 
Its real simple. If you dont abide(live) in the new testament you dont have the right God. 

John 10:8-9 
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 
(NKJ) 

II Jn 1:8-11 
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. 
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 
(NKJ) 

 
  
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  From:  David (DavidABrown)     10/17/2004 9:31 pm  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (12 of 22)  
 
  910.12 in reply to 910.11  
 
Hi Squeaky,

Im glad that you are discussing this advanced Christian topic of Covenants Old and New and because it is an advanced topic I appreciate it that ADVANCED GRACE be given to everyone involed in the discussion.

God Bless you,
David



David A. Brown
Basic Christian: Forum
www.BasicChristian.org

 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   10/18/2004 6:09 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (13 of 22)  
 
  910.13 in reply to 910.11  
 
SB, 
Do something for me. Get down on your knees, pray to Lord Jesus and somewhere within your prayer, tell Him to His face, that His Old Testement is "obsolete". I would be very interested and I am certain so would others in what His answer is to you. 

Remember what the apostle Paul said? "ALL scripture is given......"


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  From:  SqueakyBrown   10/18/2004 6:14 am  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (14 of 22)  
 
  910.14 in reply to 910.13  
 
I prayed the Lord said. How come people tell me to pray and show them the answer I get. But all I get from them is their opinions. 
Heb 8:13 
13 In that He says, "A new covenant," He has made the first obsolete. Now what is becoming obsolete and growing old is ready to vanish away. 
(NKJ) 

John 10:8-9 
8 "All who ever came before Me are thieves and robbers, but the sheep did not hear them. 
9 "I am the door. If anyone enters by Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture. 
(NKJ) 

II Jn 1:8-11 
8 Look to yourselves, that we do not lose those things we worked for, but that we may receive a full reward. 
9 Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. 
10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this doctrine, do not receive him into your house nor greet him; 
11 for he who greets him shares in his evil deeds. 
(NKJ) 

 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   10/18/2004 6:21 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (15 of 22)  
 
  910.15 in reply to 910.14  
 
That is all we get from you, SB. Turn about fair play IMHO.

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  From:  SqueakyBrown   10/18/2004 7:39 am  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (16 of 22)  
 
  910.16 in reply to 910.15  
 
What more could anyone want than to actually know what the Holy Spirit says to someone. Deception comes after someone interprets reasons out and does all their nitpicking of the Word so they can look good to others. 
But what did Paul say 
1 Cor 2:4-5 
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 
(NKJ) 

Paul demonstrated the Spirit. He didnt rely on his human wisdom and logic.
 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   10/18/2004 11:39 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (17 of 22)  
 
  910.17 in reply to 910.16  
 
What would the Holy Spirit tell you that Lord Jesus would NOT?

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  From:  SqueakyBrown   10/18/2004 2:25 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (18 of 22)  
 
  910.18 in reply to 910.17  
 
The milk is three years long and that is when you find the Holy Spirit from within. the meat is eleven years long and that is the time you spend learning from the Holy Spirit. It isnt until after that you come to Jesus and the revelations of Jesus Christ. On judgment day there are going to be many that hear these words. 
Luke 6:46 
46 "But why do you call Me 'Lord, Lord,' and do not do the things which I say? 
(NKJ) 

Matt 7:21-23 
21 "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven. 
22 "Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?' 
23 "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!' 
(NKJ) 

 
  
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  From:  Bob (hioo)   10/18/2004 2:43 pm  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (19 of 22)  
 
  910.19 in reply to 910.18  
 
You know SB that you haven't "won" anything here. At the best you have merely put things off. At the worst, you are a very misguided soul. 
I pray for you SB, for you are more than worth every prayer that can be said on your behalf. 

And I am no better than you when it comes to needing prayer. In fact, I am no better than ANYBODY. Just a guy that believes with all his heart, soul, and mind in his Lord....Lord Jesus Christ. 

It is enough....and yet I am only getting started. I will stay the course and I will learn.


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   From:  SqueakyBrown   10/18/2004 5:15 pm  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (20 of 22)  
 
  910.20 in reply to 910.19  
 
Some people are in the milk learning and searching for the Holy Spirit. Some people are in the meat crucifying their emotions and feelings witnessing and making disciples of others. Then there are those who have come to the revelations of Jesus Christ that Paul spoke of. And their calling is to demonstrate the Holy Spirit. I'm not here to win anything or anybody just to demonstrate the Spirit. 
1 Cor 2:4-5 
4 And my speech and my preaching were not with persuasive words of human wisdom, but in demonstration of the Spirit and of power, 
5 that your faith should not be in the wisdom of men but in the power of God. 
(NKJ) 

So others can see where their faith is at.
 
  
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From:  Bob (hioo)   10/19/2004 7:28 am  
To:  SqueakyBrown   (21 of 22)  
 
  910.21 in reply to 910.20  
 
So be it, SB. You do it your way and I'll do it mine. In a way it is a contest, but in a more urgent way it is a drive to save men's souls from ole whatshisface. I wish you well, SB. I have said all I can say to you without repeating myself.

Born once; Die twice
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   From:  SqueakyBrown   10/19/2004 9:27 am  
To:  Bob (hioo)   (22 of 22)  
 
  910.22 in reply to 910.21  
 
We do both have our own respective possitions to walk in. I just hope you dont do like so many that i have seen out there. 
Matt 7:3-5 
3 "And why do you look at the speck in your brother's eye, but do not consider the plank in your own eye? 
4 "Or how can you say to your brother, 'Let me remove the speck from your eye'; and look, a plank is in your own eye? 
5 "Hypocrite! First remove the plank from your own eye, and then you will see clearly to remove the speck out of your brother's eye. 
(NKJ) 

There are away to many so called teachers that are not. 

John 3:34 
34 "For He whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God does not give the Spirit by measure. 
(NKJ) 

Many are telling others to believe them, instead of believing the Word of God. 

1 Cor 3:11 
11 For no other foundation can anyone lay than that which is laid, which is Jesus Christ. 
(NKJ) 

John 12:49 
49 "For I have not spoken on My own authority; but the Father who sent Me gave Me a command, what I should say and what I should speak. 
(NKJ) 

John 12:48 
48 "He who rejects Me, and does not receive My words, has that which judges him-- the word that I have spoken will judge him in the last day. 
(NKJ) 

 
  
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